House Shows vs. The Almighty Dollar : Where Do You Stand?

We have taken the Shoutbox's hot-topic of the last few days and gave the issue it's own blog post. All the Shouts have been ordered by date and should now be easier to follow the thread compared to reading it in the Shoutbox. Please leave your thought and commentary on the issue!

I think it's a pretty common practice for places to let you in if you're legitimately broke, or didn't know there was a cost. I felt like an ass when I showed up for a show that was listed without a price without any money, because I'd like to support when I can.

Fun fact: When on the door I've had more people say keep the change, often leaving more than double the price tag, than come up short or ask for a free ride. If a house is doing it right, in my opinion, there will be enough for them to keep the venue alive as well as pass on well earned gas and burrito money for the touring bands.

here is the deal
people that throw house shows should understand that they are allowing friends and friends of friends aka strangers into their house
if you don't want to do that
don't have house shows
who cares about some fucking cigarette butts you wuss
also
here is the most important thing
im not giving money to someone who lives at house
i would rather had my money directly to someone in "touring band"
after what happened last night at dekum
someone stole all the money from skeleton breath
let me reiterate
fuck your house if you charge money
don't have house shows then
and
give your money directly to someone in a band

dude. remember the second comment? when it was pointed out that touring bands need the money? yeah. you must've missed that one because you were too busy fucking yourself in the ear. eat a dick nine times.

Many of the people that have shows in their homes, do it because they themselves are in bands that tour the country. When on tour they end up playing a lot of houses or other "illegitimate" venues that rely on "donations" at-the-door, so they know how it works (or how it should anyways). I am one of these people. You don't know how heartbreaking it is for me to spend a bunch of time/energy/money making/distributing flyers, promoting the show (quite often for new/unknown touring bands that have ZERO draw). Then, at the show I gently try to facilitate the money leaving the show-attendees pockets and entering the bands cash box. Quite often that amount is $20-50 (AKA not enough to pay for gas to their next show). They have effectively lost money playing Portland and will maybe think about skipping Portland or the PNW on their next tour. Its great to have a bunch of enthusiastic kids at your show, but gas-stations don't accept second-hand enthusiasm as payment. Underground/illegitimate shows are CHEAPPP!!! They've been $3-$5 for over 20 years. Gas has over doubled in price since then (and will probably go up to $4+/gallon again soon). Minimum wage in Oregon has also doubled in the last 20 years. Those house shows that were $3-$5 then should be at least $6-$10. Or, somewhere in the zone of one hour of work for a low-wage worker. Interestingly, the cost of beer has also just about doubled to keep pace with inflation. So, why aren't you trying to talk shop-keeps down on the cost of their beer?

My suggestions;

When you go to a show, have at least $5 with you. If you don't have access to $5 ask to borrow from a friend. Pay the friend back. If you have $5 but were hoping to spend that on beer and watch bands for free, you have to make a choice.

1. Be a dick and give your money to a megacorp instead of sharing with your culture.
2. Stay sober and support your culture.
3. Brew your own beer/wine. Start your own band.

The least we can do is show travelling bands a little love for including us in their tour.
Everyone can spare a couple of bucks for that. The house throwing a show takes on a big liability and is also worthy of a little money. if you are broke - fine, but if you're pissing $$ on other stuff but won't show support for folks putting on the coolest shows in the Universe: what does that say about YOU?
Not every city even HAS house shows. We got it good here, gang, show some love!

Are you guys dense or something? All juvenile is trying to say here, is that, if you want to have a house show at your house then you must be down with having strangers take advantage of you and your home, because wanting them to be respectful of you or your property is way pussy, and it is truly fucked to ask the people who are trying to have a good time at your place for any help with making it happen again.

It seems like some of you forgot that the main point of throwing a house show is to provide broke people (people who don't want to pay to go to bar) a gathering place to drink beer and fuck shit up without having to worry about getting crap from their roommates or any other bullshit responsibility. Personally I think juvenile did a great job in reminding us what the house show scene is all about!

let me reiterate
fuck people who do house shows
also
they owe us

thx you help keep the spirit alive
now we can afford smokes
so we can actually meet one day

House shows are about community, I think that's something Portland has forgotten. I hate you Portland house shows. You taken the love away. - not Juvenile. A.K.A lil' mama

I like house shows that charge. We spend alot our time on the road and it's just easier when someone works the door. It sucks to walk around all night and beg for donations just so the touring band can get to the next town. If it's all locals I see no issue with house shows being free, but if someones on the road at least asking everyone who's coming for a donation if they have it should be the norm.

fuck people who don't let other people in if they don't have money.

It's "way pussy" to ask people to respect your home? I think you are confusing house shows with house parties featuring live music. I've never been to a house hosting a legitimate show where the point was the get trashed and fuck shit up.

Community is about respect and a resource for a shared goal (promoting music). If you really can't afford the door, but you show respect, you'll be welcome to the community and have access to the resource (the venue). If you yell at people for charging at the door, you'll probably get the same treatment as someone who did pay, but shows disrespect and irresponsibility inside the house.

Holy hell folks it is just a few bucks. Throw it in the pot and keep on dancing. House shows are one of the greatest social havens around and I would hate to see all the spots around Portland crumble before I even get a chance to check them all out.

just keep it low and keep it relaxed (if someone doesnt have the money, no big deal)
it's possible to have the spirit of house shows, and still help support those keeping up the scene for you.

I live and book shows at the Arctic Circle Pit. My roommate and I are both Straight Edge, and each quickly approaching 30, not that that matters. We put shows together to help out touring bands, and when I put the price together, I usually ask $2 per touring band. In the past year we have had over a dozen shows here, and we have never taken a dollar from the door, everything has always been split between the bands playing that day. After the shows have been over, it's been my roommate and I cleaning up everyone else's beer cans, and it's kind of a bummer, and partially the reason we aren't doing any more shows, other than that we are moving out of this house soon.
I'm from the East Coast, and going to house shows there was always a different experience, people went for the show, not to get drunk and party, maybe I was just going to the wrong shows though.
I usually ask for a certain amount when I am "working the door" at one of my shows, but I've definitely taken less from people. As many others have said, you can drop $5 on beer, and in turn leave the cans littered around my basement, but can't afford to help a touring band get to their next stop. I'm really not surprised so many bands constantly skip the NW on tours. Where else are bands supposed to play? Satyricon? Some other cafe or coffee shop that will end up with a huge "rental fee?"

No one owes you anything. The bands don't owe it to you to play, and the house venues don't owe it to you to host the shows. Show them respect.

umm i think "carls" was being sarcastic.
i do think house shows should be cheap, but i understand it takes money to make it happen, and i think the audience are the ones who should be paying for it. i am unemployed and broke as shit, but i can't be so selfish as to say that people should have shows for our benefit and not ask anything in return. of course i love shows that are free, or only cost a couple bucks. i know how much it sucks to get turned away at the door for lack of funds after making that long bike ride in the rain. if people were trying to charge 10 or 12 bucks for house shows, that is when i would get upset. at this point though, i don't think i've paid over 5 dollars for a show in months. that is pretty good i would say. we should be thankful that portland has such a good, Cheap music scene.

I just posted a super long reply and it totally got deleted/not posted. So damn frustrating.

Anyways to sum it up: don't tour if you think you're going to make money. Don't tour if you plan on coming out even or making a nightly income sufficient enough to get you to the next state. Plan ahead and do it for the love of playing music. Asking for donations is cool since bands typically ask for donations via jars at the merch booth/announcements in between songs. Asking for donations at the door is understandably lame due to the possibility of bands sounding/playing terribly or passerbys/friends of friends that have no clue who is playing and just want something to do. Noting "donations please!" or something similar on a flier is enough to prepare individuals who can afford to spare money. Playing a show in front of 100 stoked and broke peers is better than playing to 25 donation suppliers - 75 more chances to have people return when you come again (and typically if they didn't have money the first time they will bring money the next time), 75 more chances to have people buy your 12 inch when it gets released a month after you tour, etc. If the house is asking for donations the best thing to do would be to walk around with a jar in between songs/sets asking loudly. Without attendants, house shows are nothing and bands have nothing to look forward to. THAT is the most important thing to consider.

eek, sorry about the frustration. -looking into fixing whatever bad happened. Thanks for the commentary everybody.

Regardless if the poster was being sarcastic, the general attitude against have a door charge at house shows is that you are somehow owed free entry, by being a member of some subculture or bullshit community or whatever. No one has to do anything if they don't want to, neither the musicians or the venue.

Perhaps there should be a general scale on what to charge people:
Jobless people without family support get in for free.
People with jobs and working class dependents: $3-5.
Middle and upper class dependents: $5-10.

Hell ya they should charge for house shows! People that want everything handed to them for free are greedy and lazy! As much as people like to act self righteous about how music should be free and people should play for free, the fact of the matter is that making music is a JOB! People that work for free are either slaves or volunteers, if bands want to volunteer to play free shows, then fine, that's their business. However, forcing someone to work for free when they don't want to is called slavery. These bands work their assess off, hauling gear around, sacrificing hours upon hours to practice not to mention the gas, food, electricity and cleaning up after the multitudes of drunk people who leave behind messes carelessly since it's "not their place." "Hey man, be cool let me in for free come on man hook me up I'll get you next time!" Fuck that! Pay the bands for their art, their music their life blood that they pour out that people think they can drink for free, no fuck them! People always pay lip service to supporting the local scene, but get indignant when asked to kick in a few dollars. These assholes who want everything for free remind me of people who always want to jump into your smoke circle, but never have anything to pitch in never have any money for smokes or beer but call you an asshole for "not being cool" and just handing your shit over to them! Remember, homies don't let homies do crimes for free, it's 09 time to make some moneys and shake off the dead wood!

Bad Tiems are you being sarcastic or just an asshole?

The most I've ever paid at a house show is 5 dollars. And I didn't even need to pay 5 dollars. I just happened to really like the bands that were playing. Go start a band and tour for free if you think it's so fucking easy.

Sometimes being an asshole and being sarcastic are one in the same.

I have been hosting house shows for benefits off and on for close too a decade now. I have has random spots and wrangled up PA's, I have personally broken up fights, have scars, and have played in bands playing in random peoples house's. Truth of the matter is juvy your a pissant who has not earned shit. The way you can tell that is your disrespect. Its to bad you wouldn't post who you really are so we can all keep an eye out for you at a show for being too dick to respect everyone around. I get a pit, I get a good time, I also get that bands need to go to the next destination, large trash bags are for the beer cans and other assorted shit you bring into our houses that wasent there to begin with. Why dont you start volunteering with the after clean up, and setting up a house show, ORRRRRRRRRRRR get a job you lazy fucking hippy in punks clothing and rent a space and pay the bands and than make it free because the burden was on you (ohh yah I have done that with a weeks pay before so dont think its absurd I can name a dozen people who have done it.). When you realize some people have to negotiate with roomates to do it, some kids have to get up for work and school hours after the show has happened. so in conclusion dont get lippy and if you want to address me personally do so Im brian beyond Im sure one of your friends can point you in my direction.
Sincerely
And much love to you house venue people.
Brian Beyond

we should all feel amazingly blessed that we have the community/'scene'/whatever that we have. a lot of show-goers are people who want to go and see music that they can dance to/sing along with/listen to so they can feel good. this is about feeling good. and i know that being able to support someone to their next destination or support someone replacing broken windows makes me feel really damn good. there have been so many times where i don't have money to get in to a show and i have NEVER been turned away. thats because we are all aware of the feel-good mentality being strived for. its all love in a community. so why not show love to those who help you have a good time? give a couple bucks or a beer or whatever to someone who makes you want to dance?
i mean shit, we all have shitty money problems, or crappy families/jobs, or lack thereof or whatever. there's gotta be somewhere we can go to feel better about it all.
also, support doesn't always come from money. recycle your own beer cans, clean up after yourself, try not to tear shit up too bad.
hospitality&respect is NOT THAT HARD.

i do parties

i do parties

oh and good news, ciggarette juice

let me break this down real quick.

1. if you show up at a house show with a six pack and no money for the bands who are on tour you are a total dick.

2. if you show up and really have no money then you will more than likely get in the show. you might get a little shit but hey, you still get to see music for free.

3. going to bars to see shows sucks, except for the know. the know fucking rules.

4. when you book shows at your house you know what you are getting into. if you don't, you should talk to someone who does before you book a show. it is a pain in the ass sometimes but it is worth it.

5. bad times brandon is one of the raddest people i know. don't fuck with him.

6. let this shit all roll off your back. there are dicks out there and chances are they will be gone before you even know their names. sure it sucks, but this community has sustained itself for over two decades now. we will be okay as long as we believe that we are the only ones who control our destiny.

7. if you just wanna come to a house show to party and what not i'm sure there is a fraternity or sorority that would love your company much more than we would.

8. being a punk is still awesome.

okay, can we quit having this conversation now. at least for like six months or something. we all know where we stand and we know who our enemies are. secret porpoise

You dont 'ask' people to respect your house. You take the dickheads that are disrespecting your property and kick them the hell out. Its up to the house/venue to spell out what they feel is acceptable or not. Some dont mind butts lining the yard, others do.

Someone disrespects the place by breaking the rules, blacklist them. It makes it more pleasnt for everyone involved, bands, hosts, and audience.

To pay or not to pay.. depends on how cheap ass the audience is. Sometimes selling things like drinks (and it doesnt always have to be alcohol) or merch is enough, cause people know they're contributing to the cause. If they dont pony up then charge a door fee. Then you keep asses like Juvenile from showing up and 'giving money straight to the band.' (i.e. being a cheap bastard and watching for free)

Small venue and house party music IS about being a community. ..and guess what, that means its something that Everyone supports, not just the guys putting on the show. Sometimes that support comes in the form of just showing up, sometimes its in setup or breakdown assistance, and sometimes its just money. Thats just the way it is.

okay this whole topic was started because of something i said
how about everyone shuts the fuck up now
and let whoever do whatever
because the internet isn't going to change anything
we're all human beings
I just hate thinking that because of having the 2nd highest unemployment rate in the nation I can't get a job therefore
I can't go to some house and at least be enlightened by seeing a band that I want to see
fuck you
DIY

Hate to be an asshole again, but why don't you really "do it yourself." Host a show at your house and charge admission to supplement your unemployment. Because its your house you'd even get in for free and be able to see the bands *you* want to see! How exciting!

Juvenile, this is a subject that I've been thinking about/working on for quite a while, much longer than you posting an off-handed remark on this website. So, no, I won't "shut the fuck up now", nor will I "let whoever do whatever".

Letting "whoever do whatever" is exactly what gets house shows shut the fuck down (case in point, Dekum Manor).

If 150 people show up to a house but only 50-75 of them are actually there to catch the bands, that means there's about 75-100 people too many. These people are quite often the ones that cause the problems (breaking stuff, hanging out in/messing up the neighbors yard, drinking in the street, making more noise than the music inside) and get the attention from the neighbors/cops.


A couple questions for you Juvenile:

How do you pay for your living situation? Do you squat or live in shelters?

How do you pay to eat? Do you eat exclusively dumptered, food bank and Food Not Bombs food?

If you truly have $0/week of expendable income to support the touring acts you like to see, you might have to focus on going to house shows where there are no touring acts, there are plenty of them and quite often there is no suggested donation/cover charge. This very website lists tons of them.

DUH juvenile, one of the big benefits of having house shows is that EVERYONE can see music (even you) whether or not they can pay for it. stop acting so spoiled, portlands got one of the biggest support networks for diy culture in the nation and your not allowed to bitch when we try to continue that support since you seem to have no concept of how it actually functions. im glad you brought up this topic, constructive conversation is good and perhaps one day you will see the point and relinquish your wicked ways...

like I said everyone will take whatever stance they have bullshitting over the internet isn't going to change anything we are in this struggle together my income or lack therof isn't a concern of yours my wicked ways are simply supplying the little money i do have to bands that actually deserve it im not going to pay other peoples way because they don't prepare for tour adequately enough, there is no need for personal insult and im not trying to make enemies ijust really think that this topic has had enough said and we all need to accept our differences how about a new thread about possible jobs for unemployed folk? <3

forcing people to pay at the door for a house show is ridiculous.
why let capitalism get involved in punk? i have had house shows and have toured myself multiple times so i know both ends pretty well and DONATIONS is where it's at! who are any of us to deny anyone else the enjoyment of seeing live music?
i got turned away from the Coop once because i only had $3 instead of five...

give me a fucking break!

sliding scale i can understand but being turned away from a house show gives you a severely lacking sense of hope in your "punk" community.

haha blogsssssssssssssssss are cool dude.!!!!!ajfheaoiughergt8u8394u98jfoi

"who are any of us to deny anyone else the enjoyment of seeing live music?"

How about the people playing the music.

Just because you want punk to live outside of capitalism, doesn't mean it does, or will. Vans need gasoline to get to the next city, and people need food in their stomachs. This whole notion that it should be free is asinine.

In the United States so many amazing DIY bands go on tour all the time, and usually at HUGE expense to them out their pocket because the whole idea of "donations" doesn't work here. Even the most "punk" people were raised to be selfish little brats and would rather spend their money on cigarettes and a 40oz than supporting people who travel the country to share their art. But then again, that's assuming half the kids at these shows even care about art.

It really makes me sad that lots of bands prefer touring Europe and Japan over their own country, because at least there kids actually give a shit about music, and are not afraid to spend their money to not only fuel, feed, and shelter bands, but also try and make it so the band walks away with out any financial loss. The reason kids do this isn't because they are trying to support the man or make a band rich, but because touring is stressful and expensive, and the less stressful and expensive people giving money to the band make it, the more likely that band will want to come back to your town again.

Stop being selfish, stop whining about your money, stop wasting your money on worthless things and start FINANCIALLY supporting the music you supposedly care about. Capitalism doesn't end with ignorance, it ends when people start sharing.

It's not all over America. It seems like it's only here. In Minneapolis or SF we were always very generously giving donations to touring bands that came through. Kids in Portland just don't seem to get it.

House shows rule and obviously Juvenile is confused as to what the purpose of them is. He seems to think they're basically a frat party for him and his bratty friends. Hopefully at some point he'll have to move out of his mom's house and pay for shit on his own, and will begin to understand that broke-ass touring punk bands need gas money to get from town to town. How he does not understand that is baffling.

And as far as handing the money directly to the band, great if they've got someone at the door to take the money. Usually though, someone living at the house has to take that responsibility because the band members are busy loading/ unloading and playing.

I've showed up to a show and been chewed out at the door for not having money to donate, as I had thought it was all local bands and no cost was put on the flyer. Regardless of how humiliating it was, I turned around and rode a few blocks and grabbed some beer and cash for the show. Because that's what you do if you want to see, new, original, exciting music. You support your scene.

And, seriously, no one here is arguing that free shows are bad. But if a band or a house venue wants to be paid than that's their choice. You can also make the choice of not going to said band's show, or not going to said house venues.

If the bands are touring and need money then they should charge a few bucks per person, money should not go to the house. it should go to the bands.

and when i say a few bucks i mean a few bucks a lot of kids come to shows and we do not have money!

FUCK SHOWS THAT ARE IN A BIG PLACE